Secure, Yellowstone gets all the attention of the press. But Tulsa King was that other not-so-secret crown jewel in the Taylor-Sheridan universe.

The first season of the 2022 Paramount+ drama almost arrived Yellowstone prehistory 1883 in the ratings (with 3.36 billion minutes streamed) for the story of exiled gangster Dwight “The General” Manfredi (Sylvester Stallone), who, along with a likable crew of misfits, gradually builds a crime empire in Oklahoma. Emmy-winning writer Terence Winter deserves much of the credit for the series’ success – he served as showrunner during the first season, left the series (due to scheduling conflicts), then returned as a writer and executive producer for the second season (which begins streaming September 15).

The Sopranos And Boardwalk Empire Veteran spoke with The Hollywood Reporter via Zoom about why the second season of the series (trailer, below) will be even stronger than the first, reveals what he learned from Stallone about writing, and – in other news – confirms a Tulsa King A spin-off is being discussed.

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I like to think of it this way: If you’re on a Zoom call with a television executive and they’re trying to tell you how to write something, just turn around and point to all the Emmys back there on your shelf.

To be honest, it doesn’t help. And I have to return it to the rental shop by 11am.

So I watched the premiere of your second season and if you could just do an entire episode of Stallone explaining classic poems (like Dwight does in a scene in the opening scene), that would be great.

That’s one of the fun things about writing this character. I’ve met more than a few guys who have spent a lot of time in prison. They’re incredibly well-read – because that’s all you can do. If you put someone in a cell, they read the phone book. Dwight is a lot smarter than you’d expect. He’s read everything and he’s not afraid to share that.

What appeals to you about the second season of this series?

We got to know all these different characters and set the table. Now the fun begins. You can start to build these relationships, we can delve into the backstories and see how they develop and face further challenges and conflicts. It’s always funny when you look at the original pilot for something and the actors obviously didn’t know each other. You look at the original pilot of Beautiful days and Fonzie wears a windbreaker – he only becomes Fonzie in the third season.

As you say, every show has a learning curve, but was there anything specific about the script of this show that you learned during the first season that made you think, “Oh, this either works or it doesn’t.”

It’s always fun to give Dwight surprising knowledge or surprising dialogue. I think audiences really love that. Plus, you get to see his character in situations that are familiar to all of us – you never see a mob boss dealing with the DMV or standing in line at Starbucks, for example. It’s fun to watch him navigate the world that we all have to navigate.

What struck me last season is that Stallone, a man who has never been praised for his oratory skills, really knows how to deliver dialogue. If you tell him a joke, make him a threat, give him something funny, he’s amazing.

One of the first things he said when we met was that people know him as Rocky or Rambo and that “I don’t think people even know I can talk.” So the idea of ​​him having these big monologues and comedy bits was really a joy for him. When he read the pilot, he said, “This fits me like a tailored suit. This is what I’m like in real life – if I were a gangster.” The fact that he’s comfortable with that and can say it like that makes me feel good as a writer. That’s basically who he is, right?

They also added Neal McDonough this season, who I loved in Band of BrothersHe’s one of those actors that you want to like even when they’re playing a villain.

Yeah, he comes in stealthily. He’s got that smile. He’s probably halfway to threatening you before you realize he’s threatening you. Someone pointed out to me that he doesn’t blink. I was like, ‘Oh, that’s it.’ He’s got those laser blue eyes. He’s so intense. He was an actor I’d wanted to work with for years. When you cast someone to play opposite Sylvester Stallone, they have to have a certain dignity. Sometimes you see an actor go up against another actor and you can see one of them back away. That’s not the case with Neal and Sly. And the same goes for Frank Grillo, who’s also rejoining the cast.

Stallone isn’t shy about getting his way. Was there anything he wanted for season two? Was there a Fonzie windbreaker he thought wouldn’t work?

We were pretty much on the same page from the beginning about who Dwight is. In some ways, he knows the character better than I do—what Dwight would or wouldn’t do. He’s incredibly detail-oriented when it comes to scripts. He’ll give me ideas, embellish things, or say, “I would say that differently.” With Sly, you don’t just get an actor. You get a director, a writer, a producer, an editor—he’s done everything. So he’s really an incredible partner because he understands the craft of filmmaking in general. He knows who he is, what his audience wants to see, what works for him and what doesn’t.

Is there anything you learned from him? He once taught me the value of a quality black t-shirt.

Sometimes less is more. I may tend to write a little too much. I like to listen to myself. Sometimes it’s good to be a man of few words. He understands that he can say something that might move me a paragraph further with a look, or just by walking in the door.

Another person known for contributing is the show’s creator, Taylor Sheridan. Does he let you do your own thing more or less this season?

Taylor wrote the original version of the pilot, gave it to me and said, “Take it and go with it.” And I did. I literally only met Taylor once in person – and that was two and a half years ago. We just went out and did the show with Sly and I heard Taylor likes it. He’s definitely got enough on his plate to be concerned about what we’re doing over in Tulsa.

I heard there were conversations among everyone about tone during the first season. How dramatic is this show? How comedic? I know some were surprised when the show was branded a comedy by Paramount+. What do you think about that?

It’s so hard to quantify what is a comedy and what is a drama. Sometimes it’s really impossible. I think the word for it is “dramedy.” The comedy in this show doesn’t come from setup and punch line. It’s the comedy that comes from Sly finding his way in the world and hearing his side of the world. He’s not joking. He’s serious, but it happens to be funny. I’m just writing it like he’s a real person and these are his real opinions.

One cool thing about the show – and you may absolutely hate this description and think it’s wrong – but Tulsa King It feels like it mixes some of the popular and accessible elements that make CBS crime shows so popular and keep them running for years with elements from a prestige cable drama. It feels like a CBS premium hybrid.

I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all. The show is incredibly accessible. First of all, the fact that we have Stallone in the lead role – he’s so charming and loved around the world. It’s kind of comforting. That’s one of the things about CBS – the show feels good. You feel like, “I like this guy, I like his world, I just like watching him.” Then you add more of the premium cable stuff. So it’s a little bit more complicated situations, a little bit more adult dialogue – not just the swearing, but more sophisticated themes and the way the stories unfold. I understand how you deal with that, and I don’t think that’s a bad description.

Speaking of which, I heard you are working on a Tulsa King Spin-off is set in New Orleans. Is there any truth to it?

This has already been discussed. It is still in the discussion phase.

That would be interesting because, going back to the CBS hybrid idea, CBS has managed to distribute crime shows in different cities. It would be clever to do that instead with a “robbers” series – the same idea, but from the perspective of the “bad guy.”

I’m just looking forward to getting these beignets in New Orleans.

I looked at your IMDB. Is The Godmother Project still in the works with Jennifer Lopez? Or does the Netflix series on the same topic (Griselda with Sofía Vergara in the leading role) what the heck?

Oh, we wanted to do that a few years ago, but then Sofía Vergara’s version beat us to it, so I don’t think that will ever happen.

Got it. Every other Tulwith king Thoughts on the second season before we say goodbye?

I’m really proud of how the season is shaping up. Pay attention to the character development. There are some big events and big emotional shifts with our characters. If you like these people in season one, you’ll like them even more in season two because you really get to know them on a much deeper level. We have such an incredible lineup with a huge number of really talented actors. For me, the challenge is that we only have a limited amount of space to showcase everyone. But I think we did a good job this season of giving everyone a chance to spread their wings and flex their muscles.

Season two of Tulsa King Premiering Sunday, September 15 on Paramount+. Episodes will be released weekly on Sundays.