Lawyers for former President Donald Trump and his company told an appeals panel Thursday that it should overturn a judge’s ruling against Trump has to shell out hundreds of millions in fraudulent profits, plus millions more in interest.

At least two of the judges on the five-judge panel of the Appellate Division of the First Judicial Department – the state’s second-highest court – appeared skeptical of the enormity of the verdict handed down in the case, which has ballooned to $489 million. One of the judges described the “immensely large” crowd as “disturbing.”

A New York state attorney countered that the figure accurately reflected the size of Trump’s fraud winnings.

In February, New York Judge Arthur Engoron found that Trump, his company and top executives – including sons Eric and Donald Trump Jr. – deceived banking partners by falsely inflating Trump’s assets in financial reports. This deception allowed Trump and his company to obtain contract terms that he would not otherwise have received. which leads to massive strokes of luckEngoron concluded.

The judge ordered Trump and his co-defendants to pay the state nearly $364 million in “ill-gotten gains” and interest — from before and after the verdict — that totaled more than $120 million. Because the case is a civil matter, Trump faces no prison time.

The hearing

The former president was not present at Thursday’s debates. His lawyer and New York Attorney General Letitia James, whose office filed the case, argued before the judges in a Manhattan courtroom.

Trump lawyer John Sauer said James’ office twisted what he called the “persistently false doctrine” to “act as if there was no statute of limitations at all.” The doctrine allows law enforcement to consider a series of illegal behaviors over an extended period of time as one violation.

Sauer also made many arguments that Trump and his legal team had long made, notably claiming that at the heart of the case were “no victims” and “no complaints” from banks and insurers. James’ office alleged, and Engoron found, that Trump and his company submitted false data and financial reports that made his properties appear far more valuable than they actually were.

Sauer took time to focus on an assessment Engoron made in a pretrial ruling that angered Trump. Engoron cited a series of valuations of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club by a local appraiser that showed it was worth between $18 million and $27 million. Trump has since claimed that the property he currently resides in is worth over $1.8 billion. The two sides have long argued about this great inequality. According to James’ office, the property is subject to a deed and cannot be used as a residence, limiting its actual resale value.

Sauer said the club should be considered a residence because Trump himself lives there.

“They said he couldn’t value it as a private home, but he’s been using it as a private home since 1995,” Sauer said.

The justices peppered Sauer with questions and frequently interrupted him and New York Assistant Attorney General Judith Vale as they addressed Trump’s claim that James’ office exceeded their authority and that the judge had acted too harshly.

“The immense sentence in this case is worrying,” said Judge Peter Moulton. “So how can the amount set by the Supreme Court be linked to the damage caused here, where the parties were happy to let these transactions play out?”

Vale responded that the ruling was not a penalty but rather a recovery of fraud proceeds.

“Although that is a large number, it is a large number for several reasons. First, there was a lot of fraud and illegality. This went on for seven years,” Vale said. “Another reason is that the guarantee and financial statements helped provide the defendants with tremendously favorable interest savings.”

Vale added: “It’s no excuse to say, well, our scam was very successful, so we should get some of the money.”

The Trump Fraud Verdict

In his damning verdict earlier this year, Engoron wrote that the “complete lack of remorse and remorse shown by Trump and his co-defendants borders on pathology.”

He wrote that evidentiary documents show “time and time again” that they falsely inflated Trump’s assets and reported those fraudulent figures to business associates.

Engoron concluded that Trump and his company gave accountants “patently false financial information.”

The judge criticized Trump for spending several hours blaming his staff and others Statement in November 2023 Bench attempt. While James’ office and Engoron concluded that Trump’s assets were overstated, Trump said on the witness stand that the opposite was true and that his company had “underestimated” the value of his properties. He further claimed that the value of his brand was not taken into account in the valuations.

“The numbers you’re talking about here are, you know, very large numbers, very, very large. “Much bigger – the values ​​are much bigger than what’s in the financial report,” Trump said, later adding: “Billions of dollars more.”

Trump described this and several other civil and criminal cases against him as a coordinated attempt to tarnish his reputation and harm his presidential campaign. The appeals court is not expected to rule on his appeal before the election.

The civil fraud verdict is one of three verdicts against Trump in New York last year that hit Trump financially and personally. In January, Trump was ordered to pay over $83 million Damages awarded to writer E. Jean Carroll for defamation – in addition to an earlier $5 million verdict in her favor. He was in May convicted of 34 crimes accused in his criminal proceedings of falsifying business documents. Trump is appealing both verdicts and denies all allegations.